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+--- Thread: Turn-based combat (/showthread.php?tid=582)
Turn-based combat - Artoo - 10-24-2019
I´d prefer a classic turn based combat system with action points to the current system, there isn´t much way for tactics as it is now.
Maybe it could be a similar system to Fallout 1&2, where the turn-based "combat mode" activates only when something attacks you or you activate it to attack first.
I very much like mostly everything else in the game, but the combat system is a bit simplistic now.
RE: Turn-based combat - AdmiralGeezer - 10-25-2019
Yeah, that's true and it was something that was on our minds too for a long time. We even tested out some different things with that.
While a turn-based combat system would open up a lot more strategy the main problem is that if the game is suddenly made turn-based then everything has to be turn-based. A character carrying water to a grow bed is turn-based, a shuttle flying to another ship is turn-based, a character doing an action with a machine is turn-based. Ship turrets firing would be turn-based.
Still, not impossible to do but would require a huge amount of work. Now, would this be purely beneficial to the game? The game flow would be impacted to a very large degree. The turn-based battles could take a very long time, on board large ships. And when the player has 20-30 crew members or more, moving every character in a turn would be very tedious.
All in all, so many big questions regarding such an implementation.
RE: Turn-based combat - Artoo - 10-26-2019
Hmm yes, that´s a good point. But it wouldn´t be impossible tho (maybe?)
If the game in the background would pause between turns, and unpause during a turn, like for a duration it takes to move a certain amount of tiles?
For me, it´s kinda frustrating to storm a ship UFO: Enemy Unknown -style, but not having time to tactic.
Or if the combat will be real-time, the AIs could do with some more intelligence and mind of their own, because they would have to fight and make decisions on their own too.
Maybe a system like in Dwarf Fortress could work; the AI fights on their own, you mainly give orders where to move.
It kinda does that now, the crew is just a bit slow to react.
Maybe they could check their six and surroundings on their own too, now it´s common to be pointing the wrong way after moving.
Maybe you could try to make the combat like Aliens(the movie
) , the crew would be more independent and you mostly give directions and orders.(After most of the team is slaughtered, it´s "GAME OVER MAN!" and the survivors run for the shuttle
)
RE: Turn-based combat - AdmiralGeezer - 10-27-2019
Yep, but there is no game in the background. All areas are up for being combat areas. You can have one pirate party on your ship, and your own squad on their ship. You can have a third faction on your second ship, and this same faction exploring a derelict with another squad
The support for multiple battles across multiple spaceships is there, and has to work to some degree. Add in ship-to-ship combat and it's a very complex matter. Turn-based would work here, but it would be extremely long-winded battles in these larger scale situations. We also have to think about player awareness, the fact that the player can only concentrate comfortably on one area at a time. One of the big problems with a game like this, where everything is packed into one scene, is managing game play in a way where we try to minimize the need for the player to pan around the map frantically to keep tabs on multiple areas.
The problem mentioned above will be there, to some degree, but we can try to minimize it as best we can. However, there is no way to pause the game in the background, because there is no background game. It's all in the same scene and everything is accessible
While turn-based would solve player awareness issues due to being able to show one move at a time, it would bring a plethora of other issues. And the more crew members the player has, the more the turn-based problem compounds. In the end, when the player has over a certain amount of crew members he would most likely wish the battles to be real-time so he can quickly get over it in many situations.By going even deeper, we need to think about what the game is aiming to be, because this experience we're having with Space Haven is really teaching us that you cannot have all games packed into one game. By having a base-building, more large scale unit simulation game your inevitably going to close of "turn-based individual unit movement" type of game style. The balance between trying to implement as many cool features as possible and still having enjoyable game play is tricky, it's not something that can be done without careful judgement.
The original X-COM games were great because their focus was on turn-based combat, and a more simplistic base-building game. Furthermore, these two modes were completely separated, giving the player a comfortable amount of needed awareness for each mode. When in combat scenarios, all the player needs to do is focus on the next turn-based move. When in base-building mode, all they need to do is concentrate on what to research and what to build next. There is no overlap, of having to manage multiple areas at the same time. The problem with Space Haven starts to arise when the player needs to keep tabs on multiple areas at once, both own fleet and the enemy fleet. All we can do is try to minimize it as much as possible and create scenarios where this is taken into account.
The combat might still evolve, if we can find some great things to add or come up with some ideas that would enhance it from what it currently is! We do know it is simplistic.
And on an ending note. It's not impossible that there's going to be a spin-off or another game made with the same base as Space Haven, but focus turned more on turn-based combat and other game play elements supporting just that
RE: Turn-based combat - deMangler - 06-16-2020
I am finding that treating this game as a pausable rts type thing during combat works really well.
One of the X-com games - I think it was X-Com Apocalypse did a really great thing with combining pausable and real-time interface with combat.
Actually now that I think about it X-Com Apocalypse got a lot of things right that could inform this game. Blimey - must be over 20 years since I played it....